Curse

Vinraith · Jan 24, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

I ran around in the beginning

The beginning of each campaign is a tutorial for inexperienced players. If builds didn't matter in PvE I wouldn't play PvE. I think that's true of most PvE players. Perhaps I'm just not as l33t as you PvPer's though.

Vinraith · Jan 24, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun

But it is true. Sometimes I'll make a build, pick my skills but forget to set my attributes so basically my skills were at 0 attributes and still most of the time I'd do fine. Same with being shorthanded when people quit or drop out during a mission, etc etc.

Basically PVE is so easy for the most part, it doesnt matter what skills you have on your bar.

No, it's not, and again, the claim is both so obviously untrue and presented in such a tone as to do nothing more than continue to drive a wedge between the two elements of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be a lot more interested in PvP if it weren't for PvPers.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 24, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

The beginning of each campaign is a tutorial for inexperienced players. If builds didn't matter in PvE I wouldn't play PvE. I think that's true of most PvE players. Perhaps I'm just not as l33t as you PvPer's though.

Well, I'm not going to argue on whether or not PVE is hard for YOU. But I can argue that PVE is relatively a LOT easier than fighting against a competant person in PVP.

PVE (especially in a casual game like this) is designed to be easy so that the normal "average" person can complete it. There is no medium or hard setting here. It's stuck on easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No, it's not, and again, the claim is both so obviously untrue and presented in such a tone as to do nothing more than continue to drive a wedge between the two elements of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be a lot more interested in PvP if it weren't for PvPers.

As I said, I wont argue whether or not it's easy or hard for you. But I find PVE mind numbingly easy.

God Apprentice · Jan 24, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Op you say that ANet has forgotten PvE. What about all these Double Green Weekends, Double SKill Caps etc. Almost every weekend has something special for PvE (with the exception of last weekends HA update) and also there is the holiday themes.

vaxmor · Jan 24, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Ok if it doesn't matter what skills you bring then why not make a Ranger/Warrior and take Otyugh's Cry, Focused shot,Equinox,healing spring,Frenzy, Charm animal,and Enraged Lunge. I dare you to go through the game and use only those 8 skills. If you can make it through the entire game, all three chapters or any one of your choosing I'll retract every single one of my statements and admit defeat.

Abaddon - final mission of NF campaign

adjustments: I had to add distracting shot, those claw things were pwning me too hard, I was UNABLE to add EQUINOX, for very obvious reasons.
I could have done it without adding DS, but, we had 4 heroes in the PUG, and I didnt want to add burden to the other ranger. Maybe someone else can do it without DS(?)

Further screenshots are available, just PM.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 24, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Argh. Can't edit my post for some reason. Anyway...

I just want to say that I used to be a "hardcore" PVE'er in GW until the repetitiveness and mind numbing easyness of it sapped any interest I had. So any accusations that I'm just a PVP'er dumping on PVE strictly to be "elitist" isnt true in my case. I'm just stating what observations I have on PVE and PVP.

Str0b0 · Jan 24, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No, it's not, and again, the claim is both so obviously untrue and presented in such a tone as to do nothing more than continue to drive a wedge between the two elements of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be a lot more interested in PvP if it weren't for PvPers.

That's true. I think that is what turned me off to some extent, . Particularly on the forums. The general attitude I seem to see is that PvP takes more skill and therefore PvPers are better than everyone else and we should just shut up and acknowledge that. The whole skill thing is dubious at best since I honestly believe that anyone wth a modicum of real programming skill could make a bot team that would monkey stomp any PvP team in existence simply because of faster reaction time and more precise timing of spikes and other tactics. If a computer program can do your job better than you calling it a skill is rather overstating matters. The same can be said, and indeed has been done with bot farming, for PvE the difference is only the biggest idiots in PvE go around saying they have skills because they do it. For the most part we make no claims about how great we are and just wish that PvP would stop acting so smugly superior all the stinking time.

@vaxmor ahh but you had to make adjustments for strategic purposes thus proving that slapping any 8 skills on a bar doesn't cut it. You have to use strategic planning even if in a limited fashion. Also I find it hard to believe that you completed the campaign in the short amount of time between my posting that and you posting your response. The last mission does not constitue completing the game.

Age · Jan 24, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Agreed, and i'm lucky enough to be the leader of a very successful guild and have been for over two years now...

I'm also lucky enough to be part of a very successful Alliance aswell, so you'll excuse me if i don't care for he PuG too much... However, even the new players that only picked up the game for Christmas and are part of my guild realize that there is no separation between PvE and PvP, IT'S ONE GAME AND I TEACH ALL NEW PLAYERS I COME ACROSS THAT ITS ONE GAME AND TO GET THE FULL ENJOYMENT AND SCOPE FROM THE GAME, THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, EVEN IF THEY ONLY PLAY ONE PART OF SAID GAME!

I had this at TGH, even becoming well known as the PvE scrub who didn't have a clue, but in the last few months I've actually managed to get some there to realize that it is a game as a whole and you guys here should too! As it stands, the Guru forum doesn't deserve the Elite status that the rest of Guru enjoys! threads like this are going to kill guild wars quicker than anything the Vocal Minority of PvP only players from TGH or #GWP (including those that where kicked from Alpha or not invited back, could ever do!)

PvE players that think PvP is killing this game need to get a god damn life and smell some breakfast coffee! PvP is a part of the game, but it is beautifully integrated, yet still separate from the game enough that it has no impact on PvE! Skill balances go through the entire game, the difference is that Imbalanced skills are hideously more noticeable in PvP than PvE

Did you read my first post in this thread?I said you can't separate both parts of the game haveing said that to bend it all in would mean Guild Fights on a main map not halls sort of like Turf Wars.That would be more like an MMO exprience not like a CCO.I played exclusively PvP in beta after the game went gold I thought I would discover the other half of the game.If I had 25 to 40 say in my Guild and they wanted to PvP we would I don't have that many as 100 members in Guild is not really good.I made the statement above so some might want to have fun instead of being under pressure.

I am a member at TGH as well and what ever #GWP means.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 24, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

That's true. I think that is what turned me off to some extent, . Particularly on the forums. The general attitude I seem to see is that PvP takes more skill and therefore PvPers are better than everyone else and we should just shut up and acknowledge that. The whole skill thing is dubious at best since I honestly believe that anyone wth a modicum of real programming skill could make a bot team that would monkey stomp any PvP team in existence simply because of faster reaction time and more precise timing of spikes and other tactics. If a computer program can do your job better than you calling it a skill is rather overstating matters. The same can be said, and indeed has been done with bot farming, for PvE the difference is only the biggest idiots in PvE go around saying they have skills because they do it. For the most part we make no claims about how great we are and just wish that PvP would stop acting so smugly superior all the stinking time.

I admit that there are some arrogant S.O.B. PVP players. But I've lost count on how many PVE players there on the forums who just blame PVP and PVP players for everything. Take this thread for instance. Your title was just imflammatory...even if you didnt mean it to be.

And no, I don't tell people to shut up because I think I'm better than them. But having played both PVE and PVP, I can't find much valid reasons for PVE'ers to constantly complain about skills being nerfed when it has little effect. Especially when nerfs happen in every single MMO, whether it has PVP or not.

Vinraith · Jan 24, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun

But I find PVE mind numbingly easy.

There's a wide berth between finding it easy and claiming that it doesn't matter what, if any, skills you bring. The former is credible, especially in the case of people that have literally been playing the game for years, while the latter is patently absurd. I'm perfectly willing to believe that if you've played the game a lot you can only find challenge playing against other people, that's pretty common in gaming generally let's face it. I'm not willing to accept the idea that you can run through the game with a team comprised of characters with nothing but empty skill slots. The former is a matter of experience and personal taste, the latter is basically calling PvE players stupid n00bs in slightly less obvious words and a flagrant lie to boot.

Str0b0 · Jan 24, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

And in those MMO's people still don't like nerfs and still vocalize that distaste. I don't know why you expect us to just take it on the chin when it does in fact effect us. I can't get why people keep insisting that nerfs have no effect on PvE. What are we using two seperate skill trees jhere? Do they just change PvP skills and not the PvE ones? Did I miss the memo on this. Of course it effects us.

Coloneh · Jan 24, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Op you say that ANet has forgotten PvE. What about all these Double Green Weekends, Double SKill Caps etc. Almost every weekend has something special for PvE (with the exception of last weekends HA update) and also there is the holiday themes.

the weekends dont really make up for changing the skills based on pvp.

Vinraith · Jan 24, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

On the other side of things, skill changes are not strictly because of PvP. That claim's never held any water, and it still doesn't. Things change in online games, it's the nature of the beast and it keeps the gameplay fresh. It's not a bad thing.

Oh, and as far as skill balancing, PvP should take precedence, though PvE implications should be considered as well (as I believe they are). Skill changes have more impact in a competitive environment like PvP. PvE should be (and largely is) about finding solutions to problems that, by and large, don't change. Changing up the skillset, then, is a means to make us think about new ways to solve old problems. The skillset in PvP, however, is both the problem (in the opposing team's hands) and the solution (in your team's) and thus has greater impact.

lilnate22 · Jan 24, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

well if anet takes more swings w/ the BAn bat instead of the nerf bat this game would be a whole lot better and run more smoothly. they are practicaly ELIMINATING farming... now i kno that some chinese/koran/jap scrub out there work in sweat rooms to say and sit and farm for days, but y not ban them like you do ocasionaly,

why nerf farming? its a important aspect of the game to be able to have $$$ to buy w/e u want

Savio · Jan 24, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

This thread is going the way of all previous threads on this topic - flaming and much irrelevant discussion. Closed.